Support Big Gay Fiction Podcast on PatreonJeff & Will present a conversation that took place between authors Frederick Smith, Chaz Lamar Cruz and Adriana Herrera. The event was part of the book tour for Frederick and Chaz’s book Busy Ain’t The Half Of It. Adriana talked with Fredrick and Chaz about the book and their co-writing experience, including how the process changed since the first book they wrote together. They also discussed reading and writing books with Black characters, the importance of diversity in books and media, and the impact Lil Nas X has had on music and pop culture.

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Show Notes

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Will: Coming up on this episode, we’re going to hear from authors Frederick Smith and Chaz Lamar Cruz about their new book “Busy. Ain’t the Half of It.”

Jeff: Welcome to episode 337 of the Big Gay Fiction Podcast, the show for avid readers and passionate fans of gay romance fiction. I’m Jeff, and with me as always is my co-host and husband Will.

Will: Hello, rainbow romance readers. We are so glad that you can join us for another episode of the show.

Jeff: All right we’re going to dive right into our interview segment. This is a first for us because it’s a conversation that neither of us are actually a part of. I attended an Instagram Live on September 19th, featuring Frederick Smith and Chaz Lamar Cruz in conversation with Adriana Herrera. These are three of my favorite authors in one spot, so of course I couldn’t pass that up. Plus I was reading Fred and Chaz’s book “Busy Ain’t the Half of It,” which as you may have heard back in episode 336, I absolutely adored that book.

Their conversation was excellent. Not only did Fred and Chaz talk about their book and their second time co-writing, but the conversation also went into topics about diversity, intersectionality, and queer persons of color in books and media. I love the discussion so much that as soon as it was done, I emailed the three of them asking if we could feature it here and thankfully they said, yes. So here we go with Frederick, Adriana and Chaz, and I hope you find this conversation as enjoyable and meaningful as I did.

Frederick Smith, Chaz Lamar Cruz, Adriana Herrera Conversation

Frederick: Thank you for joining us or having us hosting us, being with us, talking with us today and everything.

Adriana: Thank you for inviting me. And thank you for sending a copy of your amazing, super fun book.

Frederick: Oh, thank you. Thank you. It’s been out for about a month now and we are touring until the wheels fall off, as they say.

And you know that life too and Chaz, and I know that life, we’ve been busy for the past six weeks and everything.

Adriana: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess I wanted to ask how is it co-writing? Cause I’ve never co-written before and I’m considering it. I have a friend that we’ve been kind of thinking about a story idea and we have never done it and it’s a queer story. So, so I was wondering how it’s been. Because this is your second book that you guys write together, right?

Frederick: Chaz, you want to share how it’s been for you?

Chaz: It’s been great. I think it’s important to come up with a plan of how you want to approach the writing. What worked for Fred and I is both of our novels follow two main characters. And then we take lead on the world of those characters. That’s the responsibility we have. And then we have conversations about which direction they may go and how their lives are going to intertwine or not. So when writing together, I think it’s best to come up with a plan of how to approach it.

Adriana: Yes. Yeah. Although, I mean, that’s smart. Cause we’re thinking of doing like a romance, so it would be like a couple. So they would have one character and I would have the other character. So, it wouldn’t be a little different because then there’s like, dual POVs. How would we do it?

Frederick: And you’ve got to figure out the interactions when they do interact together, cause those chapters might have to be written together for when they’re doing… when they have, when they meet and come together and stuff. But like for our first novel co-writing actually was really natural because Chaz and I have known each other for many years as both friends and as coworkers and colleagues and just, we’ve just known each other for a while. And we know each other’s families and everything.

And so, coming together to write, was just really like an extension of all that we have kind of known in our lives and everything. And the first novel we wrote together, which is called “In Case You Forgot.” It came pretty organically.

We would meet on Saturdays. We were both living in Los Angeles at the time. And we were both meet at the West Hollywood library and on Saturday mornings and we would like rent out one of those, like study, writing rooms and things like that. And then we would just write together on a cloud. And it came pretty organically. And so that first novel we did together came pretty well.

But then the second novel, “Busy Ain’t the Half of It” which we worked on together, had to be a little bit different because I took on a new position. I moved to a new city. My new position did not give me as much writing time or flexibility as I had with “In Case You Forgot.” And so Chaz took charge and was like, Fred, look we got to outline because I can’t be sitting, waiting to start on my chapters when, you know, you’re busy doing work and busy with all that stuff and everything. And so I really appreciated it’s a, like Chaz said earlier plan and outlining really helped. Naturally though, when I’m writing and I don’t know how it is for you. I’m a, what do they call it? A pantser?

Adriana: A pantser. Yeah.

Frederick: A pantser. Yeah. So I tend to just write as the characters kind of speak to me and they go and that’s how we did it for “In Case You Forgot.” But for “Busy Ain’t the Half of It”, Chaz was like, Fred, you can’t keep up. We gotta outline.

Adriana: You need to make a plan. Yeah.

Yeah. I I’m a, plotser like, I do plot. I do a lot of like planning before I do start writing, but I usually throw out the plot, like within like the end of the first act. Usually by the time I get to like the end of the second act, it’s like completely different from what I envisioned, but it works. It’s like a roadmap, but I usually end up taking all different roads than I initially envisioned. But it does help to have an outline. Like, that’s the stuff that definitely like, co-writing like you would have to have some kind of plan cause you can’t just go off like, on your own.

Frederick: Absolutely.

Chaz: We didn’t have an outline with “In Case You Forgot.” We were just vibing out, but also writing together though. Like writing at the same time.

Adriana: Yeah, well, yes. Yeah. So that you were kind of like, I mean, like literally physically being together I bet also. Cause you can work out a lot of like, well, this is interesting, let’s go like chase after that. But I assume like, although with Zoom now and everything, like I’ve been, since the pandemic started, I’ve been writing with two, with three friends, three author friends in the mornings. And that has been really useful because even though we can’t do like in-person, we hadn’t been able to do in person things for such a long time. We could at least virtually see each other. And that did. That did help. Cause I mean, sometimes it is important to just like talk things out with other authors. Like I’m stuck or.

Frederick: Oh, that’s really cool. So you’ll all kind of do like a virtual writing group together where you’re like, it’s your writing time and you’re on Zoom together.

Adriana: Yes. Yes.

Frederick: Oh, okay. Okay.

Adriana: Yeah. And it’s been great because I’ve been writing a historical romance this year and it’s been a struggle. And so they really helped me when I’m like, I I’m going to throw this book against a wall and their like no, maybe you could do this, you can do that. Or like, how about this? Because going into a whole new genre is, is different. It’s, it’s the learning curve, like going from contemporary romance to historical romance. I have to think about things like.

Frederick: Facts.

Adriana: Yes.

Frederick: Context.

Adriana: Like black people’s legal rights and all these things. Although my book is like set in the late 1880s in Paris, actually. It’s at the 1889 World’s Fair.

Frederick: Okay.

Adriana: And so it sat kind of later in the century where like, you know, abolition, at least in Dominican Republic had happened for like 50 years. So it’s like kind of a generation and a half off of slavery, but still like, you know, power dynamics and all these things. So it’s been interesting and challenging. But I’m excited to write the next one, cause that next one is a queer story. It’s a lesbian couple.

Frederick: Okay. Although one is you’re about to co-write or you’re thinking about co-writing or your standalone?

Adriana: Yeah. It’s it’s so this is historical is a historical series. So the next book in the series is a lesbian couple.

Frederick: Oh, nice. Okay. And you know, we’re still deciding if so, you know, we we’ve done the first “In Case You Forgot,” and then the second “Busy Ain’t the Half of It” is out. We’ll tell you all about that in just a second, but we’re still figuring out what the third or next extension may be on this. Because, you know, the first novel we did together “In Case You Forgot” we got feedback from people saying they really love this character, Elijah, who became a central part of “Busy Ain’t the Half of It” and now we are hearing different feedback from people about which main or secondary characters they want to see in like a next book and everything.

And so we’re still thinking, but we got to get a proposal out very soon to Bold Strokes so then we can start our outline and writing and everything.

Adriana: Are you guys continuing to co-write or are you also doing solo projects?

Chaz: We are doing solo projects. It’s been great to co-write with Fred cause you know, Fred has a career of solo projects before we started to write together. But yes, I’m currently working on this series called “Handsome.” And so the first season is on YouTube and on Instagram. And so we’re working on writing the second season now. Other ideas of writing solo projects too.

Frederick: And what’s “Handsome” about?

Chaz: Oh yeah. “Handsome” follows the life of…. Well, the first season, follows the life of one main character who’s recently singled after being in a relationship for eight years and trying to figure out how to date again in a large city. And its second season, we’ll expand to three main characters, queer folks of color as they navigate their life, dating, careers in LA specifically.

Adriana: Nice. I think one of the things I was thinking about earlier today when we were thinking, I was just like trying to think about other writers who are in queer romance, who writing people of color. And they’re not like like specifically like romance and romance adjacent fiction. And there, I mean, there’s not as much as I have liked to see at least in like mainstream publishing, but it is like, I can think of names now, which I couldn’t think like off the top of my head, I could think of like a few people. Cause I mean gay romance is like, kind of like a big space, but like people, specifically Black people, are still not really a strong hold in there.

Chaz: Yeah.

Frederick: Right. Like, so I have a couple friends who are. So Rashid Darden who writes this wonderful series based at HBCU and it follows queer college students. His series is wonderful.

And then Fiona Zedde is another one. Yeah Fiona Zedde writes, a lot of black lesbian. I love Fiona’s work and Sheree Greer, and then Rebekah as well. Rebekah Weatherspoon, you know, kind of like you does a number of genres and, and goes from historical to contemporary to everything like that.

Those are some of them ones that I think about, but yeah, I hear you, and especially like, when I look at some of the Bookstagrammers and things like that, I see some books get a lot of praise and they get passed along through the information highway, so to speak and everything. And then it’s like, okay, but there’s a lot, there are some queer people of color, Black, Latinx, who are writing queer romance that also need to be on that same, you know, super highway as well online.

Adriana: Yes, I have to say I’ve been in a really dark place with like, the book, like how, like, I think we were in a good place in terms of like conversations around diversity and the importance of like, trying to be more intentional about centering stories with like Black authors, queer authors, Black queer authors, like intersex people who are doing intersections of experiences. And then I feel like the pandemic happened. And then like, I don’t know, like, I feel like it’s like very mushy now. And, I’ve seen specifically with like with BookTok, like I’ve been noticing that like a lot of the books that are getting a lot of, like the hype are not books that are by people of color. And I think it’s something that has to be like, like we have to keep holding that because. It’s so easy for the tide to turn. And we were like, oh, we were like, really like having the conversation become really organic, like the presence of like authors of color, like needs to be something that like publicity and the Bookstagrammers like, intentionally put out there. So I hope the conversation like, like comes back to that because…

Frederick: It needs to, and it’s important. Yes. And especially like, when I think about like, like the impact. So I’m jumping in to music, but thinking about Lil Nas X a little bit, Everyone I think loves Lil Nas X, and how Lil Nas X is just pushing the boundaries in terms of this is who I am. This is my music. This is who I am. Accept me as I am.

And I’m hoping that, you know, the same type of effect can happen with Black queer authors as well.

Adriana: Yes. Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting with him, right, because. I was just listening to the, I hadn’t had a chance to listen to it. So I was listening to it yesterday and he has the video for gosh, the one with like the just clips has the video come out, the one with him and the football player, then the locker room as a whole video come out? I haven’t seen it yet.

And I was just thinking, hey, what a time to be alive. Like as a 43 year old person who at that age was really like questioning like, you know, in the nineties, like coming off of the AIDS epidemic, living in Dominican Republic, knowing for sure I was bisexual and trying to date and in that space and imagine like, just imagining what it would have been like to have a Lil Nas X in my, in my life, like to be able to see that. Or, any of the other, like queer artists, queer writers, like “Pose.”

I mean, just everything. Right. And I think like we are in like a really important, like if we have a moment where there’s like freedom and like joy too. Because I think that’s, I think the difference with Lil Nas X that’s really like been, like really hit me yesterday. Like this, this boy like loves himself. Like he loves who he is and he’s just like being himself and in like this beautiful, expressive way. And even like five years ago, like for a man like him to make art, like some of it had to be like dark and painful and like, he’s just not doing that.

He’s just like choosing joy and he’s, you know, like that’s like, I think that’s where, like what we’re doing in the fiction space where we are creating stories, where like the joy is centered. Literary fiction can do what it does. And like everybody can like get traumatized and suffer through the entire book but for us to do that piece of it. Of just see like the lives of people being themselves and not having to like anchor it on like the bad stuff. Like I think that’s, that’s what with Lil Nas X and thinking about that and like the kind of parallels with, with fiction, like romantic fiction.

Chaz: I listened to this whole album by the way, his album is excellent.

Adriana: It’s really good.

Chaz: And you bring up a good point. I think his album, it explores his life. Like the complexities of his life, but he doesn’t just center on the pain. Like you said, on the joy, and I think that’s what Fred and I, we have done in our books too. Like our focal point is not the hardships of like existing, navigating heterosexism, or navigating anti-Blackness like, it is a part of the fabric of our stories. But to get up a story full of pain. And there’s a place for that. We’re just choosing not to write that.

Adriana: Right. It can be there, but not like that’s what it is. And I think that, that to me is, I mean, I was thinking about Frank Ocean too, like, I think for him, I wonder like what it is for him to see this new, new kid come into the scene like seven, eight years later and be able to just fully be. And like the beauty there is in that fact that that has happened. And also like, the reality that even five years ago, like, like it was so hard for him to be out and to be part of like his identity as a person trying to make music. Kind of like, and then, I mean, thinking about just like what this will do to hip hop in general.

Chaz: Yes. I’m excited for the future.

Frederick: I’m excited for the future too. And so yeah, so that whole thread, especially with thinking about black queer romance. You know, it’s something that we definitely try to center. And so, just a little bit about “Busy Ain’t the Half of It” you know, for those who have, or have not read it yet, it’s a contemporary male, male, second chance, friends to lovers romance novel, and it has elements of family and found family and some savvy teens and what has been deemed Black excellence.

And so Chaz and I both took lead on different characters. So I took lead on. So I’ll talk through the character I took lead on. Justin Monroe, who is a newscaster in Los Angeles, who is recently divorced, from his wife of 20 plus years. He has two 16 year old twins, Justin Junior and Justice. And after being released, so to speak, from the television station cause he was number one newscaster in Los Angeles. Now that he’s no longer at the anchor desk, he feels free to explore his true sexuality because both him and his wife we’re kind of living and playing a role in terms of their marriage, in terms of kind of raising the white picket fence and the Volvo and things like that. And so, Justin has a chance to find love in the second chapter of his life. And indeed he does, as all romances do.

And then Chaz took a lead on Elijah Golden, who is…

Chaz: Who is Justin Monroe’s nephew, who is also an actor trying to get his big break in Hollywood. He is also the partner of Zaire James who. Zaire James was one of the main characters in our first novel, “In Case You Forgot.”

So this novel, “Busy Ain’t the Half of It,” explores the life of Elijah Golden holistically. And so Elijah has an array of friends, of queer friends and you see Elijah navigating different, forms, kinds of relationships and trying to negotiate who he is as he continues to explore as a person, as an artist and as a partner.

The story looks at secrets and there’s also travel in the story where things evolve in love and, and in friendship. Yeah. So Elijah Golden and Justin Monroe “Busy Ain’t the Half of It” explores their life.

Frederick: And happy endings. Happily ever after. Happy for now. Happy for now. Yeah.

Adriana: Which are good too cause elijah is pretty young.

Frederick: Elijah is, is, is young and trying to get established and you know, his uncle who’s who’s this newscaster is like, hey, look, I have all these contacts. Let me hook you up and get you in Hollywood. I know all these people, but Elijah, Elijah wants to follow his own path. And that’s what everyone should be allowed to do, is to follow their own path and do it the way that they want to. Even though there could be family members who could make the road easier for them.

Adriana: One thing that I like, I’m not done with it, but one thing that I do love is the relationship and between them. And also I do, like, I love when I read a book about characters of color and like the social capital and like the mentorship and like the elder with a young person happens, like without having to resort to like, not that white people can’t be helpful because they can be, but it’s the idea of, of passing on, right. Like passing on like the wisdom and the experiences and holding up the new coming generation.

And when, I think that to me is also like, really important about the stories that we write. It’s presenting communities of color that are not just, you know, kind of like, grasping at straws. There’s been like that there’s like generational legacies that are coming in and that it’s not like we’re not new here. Like, you know, things have been happening and we have been doing things and we have, we have something to pass on. Right.

Frederick: Exactly.

Adriana: And I think like being able to show that, and not you know having to rely on social capital that has to come from another community because we don’t have that in, within. And it’s such an organic part of what is being part of a community of color.

Frederick: Exactly and, you know, and, and those are some of the fun dynamics. And some of the great feedback we’ve gotten is that people have really enjoyed the, the family dynamic. So, so not just between uncle Justin and nephew Elijah, but then also the extended family that they share in terms of Elijah’s parents and grandparents and aunt’s, and then the, the, these teenagers who have their own world in a novel as well, is something that has gotten some really great feedback in terms of the dynamics and the connections, and just kind of seeing, you know, how open and honest and free everyone, you know, is in “Busy Ain’t the Half of It.” And so, yeah.

Adriana: Yeah, I mean, I just really liked, I liked that. I liked that a lot about.

Frederick: Yes I do too. And that was fun. That was different for us too. Well, no, in “In Case You Forgot,” we also have those elements of family too, and found family. But definitely family, because, you know, one of the things that I think is important is, you know, kind of what we were alluding to earlier is that yes, there are, you know, queer people of color who endure traumas, who endure, you know, and, and, and, and we don’t disregard that, or we know that those, those are realities in so many people’s lives, but then also the other part is that you know, centering joy, living in joy you know, I know that back in the eighties and nineties, with some of the stories that like E. Lynn Harris told, or James Earl Hardy, they were centered in the coming out piece and the kind of a tragedy or the sadness that can come with, I don’t want to say sadness, the angst that comes with…

Adriana: The isolation…

Frederick: And the isolation and, you know. These characters live full, lives with their families. They’re not thrown out by their family, even though we know that’s a reality. And I know that, you know, within the world of social work and within education, we know so many queer people of color, you know, you know, get thrown out. But, you know, I think that these characters also you know, why I think it’s important in terms of writing to not only acknowledge those realities, but then also to write from a place that really centers, I guess, joy and that, that, and is a reality that, that, you know, maybe reality for other people.

Adriana: Yeah. Affirming.

It’s important to affirm that there are families that like not every like Latin person or Black person that comes out is like shunned by their family. Just like in any other community where, our families embrace us and that, I think, as you say it, it’s important to reflect those experiences that are not positive and that those are realities that exist as well. It’s important to, especially for us when fiction and mainstream media always, there’s so much about our lives that is like the trauma is what’s presented, to affirm that there are beautiful stories of support, of acceptance, of nurturing and of embracing people just as they are. Like, those are both of them are equally valuable.

Chaz: And then there are other issues to focus while having a supportive family. You know, there are other things that you can explore.

Adriana: Yeah. I mean, I I’ve thought about this a lot, especially like in the last administration being an immigrant. You know, when you have, when you’re a person of color, like you have a lot of different intersecting, like marginalized identities and at one moment, one might be more prevalent than the other, because I felt my identity as an immigrant being more painful in those years, than I did in other moments, right? Like, and that’s something that, you know, can also be explored. There’s just so many different sides to who we are. So, I mean, that’s also important to flesh out in these stories as well that we contain multitudes.

Frederick: And I think the fact that they are written by, I want to say us, whether it’s us on the screen or us in the audience, because I think that these nuanced and intersectional and multiple identities stories are really important. And I think it’s important, you know, there’s this author named Pearl Cleage, who I read. And Chaz and I have met her and talked with her a lot. And, you know, she speaks of the importance of us telling our own stories, representing our communities and things like that because it’s important for us to do it so that it doesn’t get written, not in a good way by other people and things like that.

Adriana: Yeah. I mean lens is important. Gaze is important because there’s things that you just can’t see if you’re not in that, have lived that experience or have the gaze to at least understand it.

Chaz: And so we’re doing that. yayyyy!.

Frederick: So what’s next for you?

Adriana: Well, I have a couple of things. I’m working right now on edits. I have a anthology. It’s an erotic romance anthology coming out in november with a few other friends. It’s a historical and it’s called “Rake I’d Like to F…” because we’re very subtle. It’s a gay romance and it’s historical. I’m calling it John Singer Sargent fan fiction, but it’s a portrait artist who is like kinda like, inspired on John Singer Sargent the portrait artist, but he is actually um, he he’s Black, he’s a Afro-Cuban and he lives in Paris and who falls in love for the son of a marquess. So that’s a story I’m working on and it’s called “Monsieur X.”

Frederick: Monsieur X.

Adriana: Yes.

Frederick: Oui. Oui.

Adriana: Yes. It’s, it’s very high heat. So, if you don’t like high heat…

But that’s what I’m working on now. And that’s coming out in November and then I have my historical that’s coming out in March.

Frederick: Okay. And then Chaz has got the web series “Handsome”

Chaz: I’m also, I’m just going to say it. So I’m also trying to put together, a poetry book. I have so many poems that no one has read and I want to just share it.

Frederick: Yeah.

Adriana: You should.

Chaz: It’s the time of sharing.

Frederick: The time of sharing and I needed to get working on a proposal, but I’m going to do that soon because I know they say as soon as the book is out, it’s time to be working on next project. So, yeah. I’m kind of, I like to take my time and marinate on my ideas, but you know, I definitely want to be as prolific as you, because I saw how many, I was looking through your bio in you’re press materials. You’ve done so much and like,

Adriana: Well, I’m very tired and that I’m exhausted.

Frederick: So when do you write? Are you a morning before work or you’re a night after work, so you kind of fit it in when you fit it in?

Adriana: I’m a morning writer. And when I started writing, I was actually in grad school. I was going to grad school full time. And so I was waking up at 5:00 AM and I was working from five to seven in the morning and writing then.

When I finished grad school and then I started doing clinical, I’m a clinician, a trauma therapist. So that gives you a little more flexibility because you can schedule your clients. And I was doing, I was seeing clients only part-time I was seeing like about 12 clients a week.

And then, so I had a little more time. So like three therapy days and two writing days. And so that’s how I was doing it. But now I’m taking a sabbatical from my clinical, my clinical work because I’ll tell ya, the pandemic was rough on us trauma therapists.

Frederick: Oh, I bet. Yeah. I know we’re digressing from books, but I often think about that. How the pandemic came in, all of you had to be prepared to work with all of our traumas while you all were probably, well, we all were engaged in your own at the same time. And did people give you empathy as a therapist or like, fix me, fix me, fix me.

Adriana: To be fair. Like I only work with like complex trauma cases. It was like, it was rough for my clients and, and the clinic I worked for is great. And they’re very aware that we’re like doing really hard work, but it just like, I don’t know, like after I got my vaccine and I was like, okay, we’re not going to die. I think it hit me like this year has been really hard.

And so I took, like I said, I needed to like six months just to like, get myself, like a little, give myself a little break. So I’m writing now full-time, which I don’t know if it’s a good idea. Cause I’m just taking on more projects that I really don’t need to taking on. But it’s been nice to have some time off because I love my job. Like I love working with and I only work with communities of color. Like I only work with Afro-Caribbean communities, so, and I know there’s a need there, especially because I’m a, I do bilingual therapy. I do therapy in Spanish too, and there’s not a lot of trauma specialists that are Spanish speakers, specifically Black Spanish speaking therapists. So I do know that that is something that I it’s like, something that’s important for me to do, but I need a little break this year.

Frederick: Yeah, I’ll work in higher ed. I wish I could take a sabbatical, but I’m not on a faculty. I’m an administrator, so no sabbatical, but there’s days when I wish that because I’m, well, I tend to be a morning person. I can get up at four or five in the morning and write. When it’s, I call it the quiet hours. But my dream is one day to get a little sabbatical, just to write full-time at the time I would like.

Adriana: Yeah. Yeah. It’s been nice. Although with like, I have a 13 year old, only child, who’s been thankfully, he’s in school now. And so that has given me a little more time, but it was like we were climbing walls here.

Frederick: I bet. So, yeah. Oh, go ahead Chaz.

Chaz: That’s awesome, to be able to do that full time.

Adriana: Yeah. Yeah. I’ll see how it goes. I think I’ll get the itch to go back just because I really do enjoy working with my clients. So I’m sure at some point I’ll call the clinic and be like, I’m ready. Who’s on the waiting list.

Frederick: Very cool. Well, thank you so much for taking some time with us today. We love your work. We appreciate you. And we hope that people will pick up “Busy Ain’t the Half of It” on Bold Strokes Books. It’s been out since August 2021 and Chaz and I thank you all for watching and for reading and for spending some time today with us.

Adriana: Thank you for having me. This was fun. Fun, virtually meeting you.


Will: This episode’s transcript has been brought to you by our community on Patreon. If you’d like to read the conversation for yourself, simply head on over to the show notes page for this episode at And don’t forget, the show notes page also has links to everything that’s been discussed in this episode.

Jeff: Thanks again to Frederick, Chaz and Adriana for allowing us to share that conversation with you. I’m certainly looking forward to the historical that Adriana mentioned she’s working on as well as that co-writing project. Plus, Fred and Chaz really need to sort out that third book because I’m eager to return to the characters that they had created.

Will: All right. I think that’ll do it for now. Coming up next, on Monday in episode 338, we get into the holiday spirit as we talk with Roan Parrish about her just released holiday novel, “The Lights on Knockbridge Lane.”

Jeff: And don’t worry if you think we’re jumping the gun on Christmas, Roan’s got something for Halloween too. We’ll also discuss her Audible Original, which is a queer horror collection called “Strange Company.”

Will: On behalf of Jeff and myself, we want to thank you so much for listening, and we hope that you’ll join us again soon for more discussions about the kind of books that we all love, the big gay fiction kind. Until then keep turning those pages and keep reading.

Big Gay Fiction Podcast is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. Find more shows you’ll love at Production assistance by Tyson Greenan. Original theme music by Daryl Banner.